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Tee uus teema Vasta teemale  [ 165 postitust ]  Mine lehele Eelmine  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Järgmine
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PostitusPostitatud: 04 Aug, 2007 1:06 
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Kolleeg Trollil õigus- võtsin kiiruga andmed 1940-1941. Kuid ikkagi on need andmed 2-max 3 tuhandest hukatust pläma.
Riputan üles esimesed ettejuhtunud andmed:

http://www.publicist.n1.by/articles/rep ... gany1.html

Kusjuures punaste poolt koostatud statistika.


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PostitusPostitatud: 04 Aug, 2007 9:31 
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Ja jälle pean vastu vaidlema! Kui just sellest tabelist lähtuda, ei tundu Djukovi toodud hukatute arvud sugugi valed. Sellest tabelist pole nimelt võimalik välja lugeda , kui palju lasti maha just ajavahemikul juuni1940 kuni juuni 1941. Mahalastute arv 1941. aastal (8001) on ju terve aasta kohta, sealhulgas ka juba sõja ajal toime pandud, mis kindlasti oli oluliselt suurem kui rahu ajal.

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PostitusPostitatud: 06 Aug, 2007 10:33 
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Troll kirjutas:
Irw, täna tuli ühes vene foorumis huvitav väide:
"Из истории эстонского народа:
В промежуток с 11 до 14 века неоднократно подвергался нападениям шведов и немцев, на защиту приглашали РУССКИХ КНЯЗЕЙ.


Jajah, muidugi tulid vene vürstid eestlasetele appi :lol: Ainult et nad jäid kas totaalselt hiljaks või ei jõudnud üldse kohale. Võimas abi, ütleks ma. :roll:

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Kes kontrollib olevikku, kontrollib minevikku. See kes kontrollib minevikku, kontrollib ka tulevikku.


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PostitusPostitatud: 06 Aug, 2007 11:29 
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Marissa kirjutas:
Troll kirjutas:
Irw, täna tuli ühes vene foorumis huvitav väide:
"Из истории эстонского народа:
В промежуток с 11 до 14 века неоднократно подвергался нападениям шведов и немцев, на защиту приглашали РУССКИХ КНЯЗЕЙ.


Jajah, muidugi tulid vene vürstid eestlasetele appi :lol: Ainult et nad jäid kas totaalselt hiljaks või ei jõudnud üldse kohale. Võimas abi, ütleks ma. :roll:


Oi, kui tõsine sihtumine muinasjutudesse. :)

Jääb ainult tõestada, et 11-14. sajanditel eksisteeris selline asi nagu eesti rahvas ning tuvastada vene vürstide etnilist kuuluvust :) See, et ei tollaegsetel "sakslastel", "rootslastel" ega "venelastel" polnud aimugi, et nad kuuluvad mingisse rahvusesse, olen ma kindel. Kusjuures, kahtlen siiralt, et antud ajastu tingimustes olid kasvõi teoreetiliselt võimalikud sellised suuremeelsed teod nagu "appi minek" -- pigem siiski jutt käis sõjaliidudest, pragmaatiliste eesmärkidega ja vastava tasu eest. No ei tulnud appi -- jäid siis tasust ilma.


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PostitusPostitatud: 07 Aug, 2007 13:40 
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Vene keele oskajatele pisike ajalootest :
http://www.kommersant.ru/test5.aspx


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PostitusPostitatud: 07 Aug, 2007 14:46 
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Ai, kui hää! :D
Ei vastanud ühelegi küsimusele, lihtsalt vajutasin all "proverit otvetõ" ja sain teada, kes ma olen....

Вы никакой не учитель истории, ВЫ УВОЛЕНЫ
Вас нельзя на пушечный выстрел подпускать к отечественным детям.

Pilt

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

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Last thing I remember, I was Running for the door
I had to find the passage back To the place I was before
"Relax", said the night man, "We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!"


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PostitusPostitatud: 07 Aug, 2007 14:50 
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Mina vastasin. Tulemus 8-st 0. Lisaksin, et ajalugu on mul alati 5 olnud.


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PostitusPostitatud: 07 Aug, 2007 14:55 
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"Õiged" vastused annavad tulemuseks:

Поздравляем Вас: Вы ВЛАДИСЛАВ СУРКОВ
Вам гарантировано упоминание в одной из следующих версий учебника по новейшей истории России.

Pilt

Päris meeliülendav mäng hetkeleitsakus, kas pole :D ?

_________________
Last thing I remember, I was Running for the door
I had to find the passage back To the place I was before
"Relax", said the night man, "We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!"


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PostitusPostitatud: 09 Aug, 2007 16:40 
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lõpuks on siis djukov maha saanud ühe suurema avastusega:
Tsiteeri:
По моему мнению, именно действия прибалтийских националистов, за короткое время уничтоживших десятки тысяч евреев, подсказали нацистскому руководству идею "окончательного решения еврейского вопроса". Вторгаясь в СССР, нацисты предусматривали уничтожение части евреев и изоляцию остальных в гетто. Прибалтийские националисты впервые продемонстрировали возможность поголовного уничтожения евреев.

et siis pribaltika natsionalistid olid tegelikud holokausti algatajad.

võetud:
http://www.info-rm.com/ru/interview/int ... p?ID=22176


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PostitusPostitatud: 09 Aug, 2007 16:44 
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zz


Viimati muutis Arnold, 15 Aug, 2007 2:39, muudetud 1 kord kokku.

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PostitusPostitatud: 10 Aug, 2007 23:32 
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Kahjuks on tuhandeid selliseid deniskasid, kes ei osale siin foorumis aga võtavad seda kõntsa tõe pähe.Nisukeste jaoks oleks misjonäre vaja.


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PostitusPostitatud: 11 Aug, 2007 19:30 
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Kolleeg Arnoldiga täiesti ühel meelel, noored foorumlased, kes vene keelt piisavalt ei valda, jäävad paljust ilma. Ilma tõelistest ajaloolistest pärlidest.


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PostitusPostitatud: 13 Aug, 2007 0:43 
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Masinatõlge inglise keelde.

“For which battled Soviet people?”

So is called the book of historian Alexander [Dyukova], who tells about genocide, which the peoples of the Soviet Union in the years of World War II underwent. RIA “of ines-form” it proposes to your attention to interview with the author.

Talking with the adolescents, I came to the conclusion that they are small that they know about the World War II. Their idea about that occurred then - at the level of [popsovykh] Russian [kinopoddelok], whose name even is not desirable to pronounce, and American films, like “to save Private Ryan”. Your book is called “for which they battled Soviet people?”. However, so for which they did battle?

In order to answer this question, it is necessary to recall about the fact that bore to our country and to our people the Nazis. Today about this is not somehow accepted to recall - first whether because of the considerations of political correctness, then whether because of commonplace ignorance. Nazis arrived to the Soviet Union in order to kill the large part of his inhabitants, and those survived to convert into the slaves. Hitler in the conversation with Rumanian minister Antonescu was expressed on this calculation to [ischerpyvayushche]: “My mission, if me succeeds in, destroying Slavs. In future Europe must be two races: German and Latin. These two races must work in Russia in order to decrease a quantity of Slavs. Russia it cannot be approached with the juridical or political formulations, since a Russian question is much more dangerous than this seems, and we must use colonialist and biological means for the destruction of Slavs”.

From the very beginning war the concept of the depopulation of the Soviet earth began to be realized. And then the question about the national survival came up before the Russians, the Ukrainians, the Belorussians and the Jews. Soviet people battled for that so that the Nazi plans of [narodoubiystva] would not be personified into the life. All the remaining motivations, in my view, bore second nature.


- For some reason, in fact, they are troubled to speak about the fact that the German aggression led to genocide unprecedented in the history of humanity. What us did expect, if Hitlerites did conquer?

Nothing good. I already quoted the statement of Hitler in the conversation with Antonescu; it speaks for itself. According to indications at the Nuremberg process of the General of the troops SS of Eric von -[dem] Bang's -[Zelevski] [obergruppenfyurera], before the attack in the Soviet Union Himmler stated, that the number of Slavs must be reduced to 30 million people. And this was not the limit: already after several months field marshal [Gerd] von [Rundshtedt] stated: “We must destroy, at least, ONE THIRD of population of the connected territories”.

The same Soviet citizens, to whom it had luck to survive, according to Nazi plans was to be brought together to the position of the uneducated slaves. As was expressed Martin Borrman, “Slavs must work on us. They can die inasmuch as they to us they are not necessary. They must not have the capability to use the German political system of the state of public health. Their birth rate does not interest us… We do not want so that they would be [obrazovanny]. It is sufficient, if they will count to hundred. Such [nedoumki] will be for those more useful for us. We will leave religion for abstracting the attention. As far as foodstuffs is concerned, they will obtain only that which by them is completely necessary”.
It is important to note that the Nazis actively personified these plans during the war into the life. Fortunately, fully for them this make could not; however, even the fact that they had time to make, it cannot but terrify.


- I cannot but present the question about the Soviet prisoners of war. Now many so-called researchers charge with the total destruction of Red Army men Stalin. Allegedly, it did not sign the Geneva conventions, because of this the Germans so [negumanno] related to our compatriots. But Germans, as [podpisanty] of this convention, obligated were to equally relate to the soldiers of all states?


Soviet prisoners of war were not set “out of the framework of the Geneva convention” for that simple reason, that this convention was signed by Germany. After making this, Germany took upon itself the obligation to satisfy the positions of convention with respect to the prisoners of war independently of that, was joined to the convention the country, with which Germany is found in the state of war. Undoubted fact lies in the fact that Nazis consciously send for the disturbance of the Geneva convention during the war against the USSR. This was caused by the destructive nature of the war in the east, whose sense maximally lapidary determined field marshal von [Rundshtedt]. “We must destroy, at least, third of population of the connected territories”, he stated on the eve of the war. The mass destruction of Soviet prisoners of war was one of the elements of the general plan of genocide of the population of the USSR. To charge with the loss of our prisoners of war Soviet management, at least, is absurd.


Describe, if you please, about your book, as it was written?

Recently in our country people, which assert, appeared that in the case of the victory of Nazis nothing terrible it occurred, and, on the contrary, Russia would be freed from the Bolsheviks. Such people, the intelligible matter, a little, but they are very “loud”. We all remember the timed to the 60- anniversary of victory article Of [minkina] in “MK”, basic leit-motif of which was phrase “can, better Fascist Germany 1945- m conquered the USSR. But it is still better than b 1941- m!”. And such statements, unfortunately, are not single. My book was written as reminding about that which would be, if Nazi Germany conquered. About the fact that to our people and to our country in reality threatened the destruction.
To write this book was not easy. Not in the sense of the inaccessibility of materials - material- that exactly, it is completely accessible. It is difficult - in the moral plan; the scale of the tragedy, with which deals the discussion, is simply improbable. When you read one after another documents, the protocols of examination, recollection of eyewitnesses about how Nazis they destroyed the proving to be themselves in the occupied territory inhabitants and prisoners of war - about the wells, well-packed by corpses, about the killed babies, about the burnt alive families - when you read all this, you touch the improbable pain and the horror. I several times threw this book, understanding, that I cannot write about this. But then it returned - because if we this book do not write, then they will forget about that occurred and they will believe the aggressive propaganda of revisionists, who convince, that “better we were returned to Hitler”.


What greater than you in all did stupefy, when you did work?

Degree of the involvement of Wehrmacht in the destruction of innocent civilians and Soviet prisoners of war. It is customary to assume that the command of Wehrmacht distanced himself from “special actions”, shifting them on the arms SS. However, in reality, everything was entirely not thus. For example, the chief OF [OKKH] Of [galder] developed the project of directive about “ideological war” in the east even to the famous appearance of Hitler on March 30, in whom the Fuehrer declared, that the war against the USSR will be war of annihilation. Thus, the chief of general staff [OKKH] anticipated the wishes of the Fuehrer.
However, TU readiness itself for realizing of destructive policy we see also in “front” Generals. As a rule, they did not have differences with the SS men from [aynzattsgrupp]. For example, the chief of [aynzattsgruppy] “A” of [brigadenfyurer] SS Of [shtalekker] recalled: “Collaboration with the armed forces was usually very positive; in certain cases, for example with the 4th tank group, which commanded colonel general [Geppner], this collaboration was very close”.
It is generally very complicated to name the German General, who would not be mixed in the crimes in the Soviet territory. Guderian gave order about the destruction of prisoners of war, Manstein - about the destruction of Jews… The contribution of Wehrmacht to the realization of genocide for the occupied Soviet land is not less than in SS.


But are there in you the data about the atrocities, which made national formings SS. For example, the same Latvian subdivisions?

Some interesting data there are. For example, about the most severe Jewish pogrom, arranged by nationalists in kaunas after the arrival of the German troops. Or sufficiently long ago the introduced into the scientific revolution, but, unfortunately, little-known to the general public data about “anti-guerrilla” operations Latvian SS under Vitebsk. To a question of the officer OF [ROA], why the Latvians burnt village [Morochkovo] and killed its inhabitants, Latvian SS man answered: “We them killed in order to destroy as much as possible Russians”. Unfortunately, cannot be filled immense, and in the book the question about the crimes of Baltic collaborationists is touched upon casually. In reality this theme must be investigated separately and very thoroughly.


If it is possible, describe in greater detail about the destruction of Jews in the Baltic States. Jewish problem there indeed was solved with the special spread?

The destruction of Jews in the Baltic States really was conducted more than actively, with the most direct participation of local nationalists. For example, during the pogrom in kaunas, about which I already mentioned, within one night were killed more than one-and-a-half thousand people, and after several days the number of Jews killed in the city reached already four thousand. And this was only beginning. In my opinion, precisely, of the action of Baltic nationalists, in short time the destroyed ten thousand Jews, they prompted to Nazi management the idea “final resolution of Jewish problem”. Invading in the USSR, Nazis provided for the destruction of the part of the Jews and the isolation of rest in the ghetto. Baltic nationalists for the first time demonstrated the possibility of the general destruction of Jews.


And another question, different [monarkhistskie] motions now flow bitter tears about the accomplices of Nazis, the chieftains To [krasnove], skin, [Domanove], Pavlov, von To [panvitse]. In these fighters against the bolshevism indeed of hand on the elbow in the blood? And any conversations about any their rehabilitation - blasphemy. Outrage above the memory of our killed compatriots.

Yes, of course, with the rehabilitation Of [krasnova] or von [Pannvits] cannot deal the discussions. the 15th cavalry housing SS completed many crimes in Yugoslavia. This, for example, it is discussed in the statements of von [Panvits] himself. Thus, for instance, at the end 1943 in the region [Frushka]- mountain the cossacks of von [Pannvits] " made the mass rape of Yugoslavian women”. It did not manage also without the murders and the burning of villages.
However, that to [Krasnova], then it was “altogether only” the ideologist “Cossack” separatism. “Cossacks! You remember, you not Russians, you cossacks, independent people. Russians are hostile to you. Moscow was always the enemy of cossacks, their weight and it exploited. Now came the hour, when we, cossacks, can create their independent from Moscow life”. In my opinion after the reading of similar calls any questions about the possibility “of the rehabilitation” Of [krasnova] in our country must fall by themselves.


There are whether more or less reliable data, how many Soviet citizens did become the victims of German aggression?

There are different estimations, but I think that to be oriented he is worthwhile to the data of the statistic study “Russia and the USSR in the wars [KHKH] of the century”, prepared by joint authors under [G]. [Krivosheev]'s management. According to these data, by Nazis it was physically destroyed 7,4 million Soviet citizens, about 2,1 more million perished on the forced works in Germany, and 4,1 million perished from the hunger organized by Nazis. On the whole, the body count of Nazi occupation, according by this Of [krivosheeva], composes approximately 13,7 million people. To this number it is necessary to add even as the minimum 2,5 million destroyed by Nazis Soviet prisoners of war, who also became the victim of policy of genocide achieved on our earth. Numbers, properly, which terrify: it turns out that of 70 million Soviet citizens, who proved to be themselves in the occupied territory, was each fifth destroyed. On my persuasion, this - is terrible tragedy during entire history of our country.


Describe a little about itself. On the plans for the future.

In my biography there is nothing especially remarkable. Moscow historical-archive institute finished, since 2004 I work in the information agency of [ARMS]- TASS. The book about Nazi genocide - first author's, but already in this year will leave even as the minimum one by the name “myth about genocide: The repressions of the Soviet regime in Estonia”, in which with the support to the documents [GARF] and TsA the FSB is exposed one of the most popular in modern Estonia myths about “Soviet occupation”. In the nearest plans - the book about the activity of Lithuanian forest brothers and about the false documents in Soviet history 1930 - 1940. Fakes now bred much…


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PostitusPostitatud: 14 Aug, 2007 10:17 
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http://rus.delfi.lv/news/daily/latvia/a ... d=18695478

Lätlastel tuleb ilmselt peagi probleeme. Venelased kavatsevad korraldada 8. septembril mingi protestirongkäigu/marsi. Pöörake tähelepanu loosungitele.
Tsiteeri:
...поднять самооценку русскоязычного населения Латвии и дать возможность русскоязычным почувствовать себя наравне с коренным населением : "Русские — коренные жители Латвии!", "Гражданство и право голоса — всем!", "Русский язык — официальный!", "Русским — русское образование!", "Это наша страна!", "Русские не сдаются!" "Будет хорошо русским — будет хорошо ВСЕМ!".

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NK rühm Ida-Tallinnas, NK mererühm Tallinnas, NK Tallinna malev.


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PostitusPostitatud: 14 Aug, 2007 12:07 
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Loosungid loosungiteks. Need on stabiilselt ühesugused. Kuid see eest, millele see rongkäik pühendatud on? Kulikovo lahingu aastapäevaks!? See on ikka tõeline tase. Kui võtta ette ajaloosündmuste kalender, leiaks põhjuse korraldada rongkäigu Borodino, Tsusima, Poltaava jt lahingute puhul. Oleks iga päev põhjus plakatite ja loosungitega ringi jalutada...


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Tee uus teema Vasta teemale  [ 165 postitust ]  Mine lehele Eelmine  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Järgmine

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