Hiina ja India suhted

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Re: Hiina ja India suhted

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SEPKA-Pakistan ajab ka oma tegevust seal piirkonnas veidi soojemaks.
OSINT handles are reporting PAF jets flying over Karachi, heavy PAF movements along LOC and IB

And worst: Reports of some Civillian Airport taken over by PAF
https://twitter.com/sanjeev_goyal/statu ... 2664785922

SEPKA-India poolel käitumine
Army Navy Air Force at highest level of Alert

Forward movement of all assets including Ships , Fighter Jets and troops

Rules of Engagement at LAC has changed. Local commanders told 'do what you need to when hostilities with PLA erupts '

No military level talks.
https://twitter.com/shreyadhoundial/sta ... 0831011846

India teeb ettevalmistusi võimalike vajalike varude kasutuselevõtuks
India has given powers to armed forces to make emergency procurements to stock up its war reserves in the wake of escalating conflict with China along the Line of Actual Control. Fighters, warships moved to forward bases after bloodiest day in Ladakh.
https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 8258712576

Hiina ja India välisministrid arutavad tekkinud kriisi.
India, China foreign ministers discuss border clash.
https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1273213855607541761

EDIT 22:12
Eesti poolelt ka üsna hea kokkuvõte
https://maailm.postimees.ee/6999459/hii ... kaigastega
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Hiina politoloog Long Xingchun märkis New York Timesile, et suur ohvrite hulk teeb väärika taganemise mõlemale riigile raskemaks. „Hiina ja India vaheline vastasseis on kestnud aastakümneid, aga poolte uhkuseks pole olnud tulistamist ega hukkunuid,” ütles Long. „Mingit põhjust sellise asja juhtumiseks polnud, kui tegu ei olnud just sõjaväelaste kontrolli alt väljunud konfliktiga.” Praegune tinglik eraldusjoon on laias laastus kehtinud 1962. aastal toimunud India-Hiina sõjast. Viimane hukkunutega juhtum oli 1975. aastal, kui Hiina sõdurite väidetavas varitsuses hukkus neli India sõdurit.

Pingemaanduse huvides on mõlema poole sõduritel rangelt keelatud tulirelva kasutada ja keelust peeti kinni ka esmaspäevase lahingu käigus. Kivide, kaigaste ja metallkangidega peetud kähmlusi toimub vaidlusalusel alal regulaarselt. [...]

India ametnike sõnul puhkes konflikt sõdurite vahel peetud läbirääkimiste käigus. India versiooni järgi käis nende komandör hiinlastega arutamas, kuidas vastastikuseid pingeid maandada. Kohtumise juures viibis sadu sõdureid. Arutelu kasvas üle vaidluseks ja see omakorda veriseks kakluseks. Guardianiga vestelnud India allikate sõnul olevat Hiina ohvitserid neid solvanud ja tekkis kähmlus, mille käigus kukkus India komandör kaljuservalt alla. „Nad ründasid metallkaigastega, komandör sai rängalt viga ja kukkus,” ütles India valitsusallikas Reutersile.

Löömingu teravnedes saabus mõlemale poolele abijõude ja võitlus vältas mitu tundi. Suurem osa kaotusi paistab olevat saadud kukkumise tagajärjel. India armee ametliku teate järgi suri kolm nende sõjaväelast kohapeal ja 17 saadud vigastusse hiljem. Samuti on veel kümned sõdurid teadmata kadunud ja võivad olla Hiina poole käes vangis. India armee kinnitusel hukkus võitluses ka Hiina sõdureid.
https://epl.delfi.ee/valismaa/piirialad ... d=90200379
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India poolelt ülevaade, mis toimus
The context is well known. Ten days prior, Lieutenant General-level talks had taken place and disengagement between both sides had begun at Patrol Point 14, since both had mobilised very close to the Line of Actual Control.

A Chinese observation post, which had been set up at the vertex of the bend in the Galwan River was proven, during talks, to be on the Indian side of the LAC, and an agreement had been reached to remove it. A few days after talks the post was dismantled by the Chinese. Commanding Officer of the 16 Bihar infantry battalion controlling the area Colonel B Santosh Babu even held talks with a counterpart Chinese officer on the day after the Chinese dismantled the camp.

But on June 14, the camp unexpectedly re-emerged overnight.

At around 5pm on June 15, while the sun was still very much up, Colonel Babu decided to personally lead a team to the camp. Having spoken just a few days prior with the other side, the Commanding Officer is said to have wondered whether there had been a mistake. While young officers and jawans were raring to remove the Chinese post themselves, Colonel Babu, known to be a highly sober, cool-headed officer who had in a previous stint also served as a company commander in the area, decided to personally go.

In normal course, a Company Commander (Major rank) would probably have been sent to check. But Colonel Babu decided not to leave it to 'youngsters' in the unit. It is important to remember here that tempers were not up.

The young officers and jawans were simply motivated by the prospect of a task in a narrow river valley that has seen nearly no tactical disputes of any kind -- and where troops on either side have actually been quite friendly.The context is well known. Ten days prior, Lieutenant General-level talks had taken place and disengagement between both sides had begun at Patrol Point 14, since both had mobilised very close to the Line of Actual Control.

A Chinese observation post, which had been set up at the vertex of the bend in the Galwan River was proven, during talks, to be on the Indian side of the LAC, and an agreement had been reached to remove it. A few days after talks the post was dismantled by the Chinese. Commanding Officer of the 16 Bihar infantry battalion controlling the area Colonel B Santosh Babu even held talks with a counterpart Chinese officer on the day after the Chinese dismantled the camp.

But on June 14, the camp unexpectedly re-emerged overnight.

At around 5pm on June 15, while the sun was still very much up, Colonel Babu decided to personally lead a team to the camp. Having spoken just a few days prior with the other side, the Commanding Officer is said to have wondered whether there had been a mistake. While young officers and jawans were raring to remove the Chinese post themselves, Colonel Babu, known to be a highly sober, cool-headed officer who had in a previous stint also served as a company commander in the area, decided to personally go.

In normal course, a Company Commander (Major rank) would probably have been sent to check. But Colonel Babu decided not to leave it to 'youngsters' in the unit. It is important to remember here that tempers were not up.

The young officers and jawans were simply motivated by the prospect of a task in a narrow river valley that has seen nearly no tactical disputes of any kind -- and where troops on either side have actually been quite friendly.

At 7pm, Colonel Babu along with a team of about 35 men, including two Majors, proceeded on foot to the post. The mood in the team was not one of belligerence, but rather of inquiry. When they reached the Chinese camp, the first thing the Indian team noticed was that the Chinese troops didn't seem familiar -- they weren't the PLA troops normally deployed in the area.

The men of 16 Bihar had built familiarity with the Chinese unit, and had expected to run into troops and officers they already knew. The fresh faces was the first surprise. It has been assessed during a debrief that the 'new' Chinese troops at the offending post were from a pool freshly diverted from a PLA exercise in Tibet in the second half of May.

The men of 16 Bihar had received word at the time about the arrival of the 'new' PLA troops, but it was clear they were restricted to the 'depth' areas deep on their side of the LAC.

These 'new' Chinese troops were immediately belligerent once the Indian team arrived. When Colonel Babu opened the conversation, asking why the post had been re-erected, a Chinese soldier stepped up and pushed the Indian Colonel backwards hard, with expletives in the Chinese language.

In an Army unit, as several voices have since articulated, seeing your Commanding Officer disrespected and assaulted thus is equivalent to seeing your parents physically abused. The reaction was instant. The Indian team pounced on the Chinese. The fight strictly was a proper fist-fight with no melee weapons of any kind. This was the first brawl and ended about 30 minutes later with injuries on both sides, but the Indian team prevailing.

They rounded off the sparring by smashing and then burning the Chinese post to ashes. The pushing of their Commanding Officer had already crossed a very dangerous red line.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3 ... 2020-06-21
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Re: Hiina ja India suhted

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Hiina liigutas S-400 õhutõrjesüsteemi konfliktipiirkonda
Media Reports indicated that the Chinses have moved their S-400 AD missile system to Ladakh. This is currently The worlds most advanced system and Indicates that the Chinese are Now really mortally scared after 15-16 June Clash
https://twitter.com/GeneralBakshi/statu ... 0898137088
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
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This is currently The worlds most advanced system
No ma ei tea...

Hiinlased lihtsalt katavad oma tagumikku - igaksjuhuks. Kui siiani pole mingit tõsist eskalatsiooni järgnenud, siis vaevalt see nüüdki juhtub.
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India andmetel on Hiina piirkonda viinud suures koguses vägesid (ca 40 000 meest)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 108290.cms

Kaart uutest punktidest konfliktipiirkonnas
Pilt
https://twitter.com/SimTack/status/1285 ... mw2NgjAAAA
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Kriku kirjutas:
Hukatus kirjutas:Rõõm näha, et tänapäeva moodsad armeed veel ka kiviaegsetest nuiaga sõjapidamisviisidest lugu peavad.
Ma saan aru, et enne rünnakut oli India sõjaväelastel keelatud esimesena relva kasutada?

Niisugused lollid korraldused lõppevad alati mingi suurema hädaga :(
Ma arvan, et kumbki pool üritab iga hinna eest tuumasõda vältida. Indial on käimas ka lennuväe ringi relvastamine, tankiüksustega on probleemme jne. Valel ajal sõja alustamine tähendaks kaotust aga kui need inimesed oleksid tulevahetuse käigus surma saanud, siis oleks võib-olla eskaleerumine olnud kiirem ja suur sõda ka juba käes. Pakistan kasutaks seda ka kohe hetkeliselt ära ja see on ju kolmas tuumariik seal, kes igatseb hindude verd.
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Tux kirjutas:
Kriku kirjutas:
Hukatus kirjutas:Rõõm näha, et tänapäeva moodsad armeed veel ka kiviaegsetest nuiaga sõjapidamisviisidest lugu peavad.
Ma saan aru, et enne rünnakut oli India sõjaväelastel keelatud esimesena relva kasutada?

Niisugused lollid korraldused lõppevad alati mingi suurema hädaga :(
Ma arvan, et kumbki pool üritab iga hinna eest tuumasõda vältida. Indial on käimas ka lennuväe ringi relvastamine, tankiüksustega on probleemme jne. Valel ajal sõja alustamine tähendaks kaotust aga kui need inimesed oleksid tulevahetuse käigus surma saanud, siis oleks võib-olla eskaleerumine olnud kiirem ja suur sõda ka juba käes. Pakistan kasutaks seda ka kohe hetkeliselt ära ja see on ju kolmas tuumariik seal, kes igatseb hindude verd.
Tundub olevat midagi sarnast 1969. aasta NSVL-Hiina piirikonfliktiga, kui venelased hiinlasi pikkade kasest harkidega üle piiri tagasi lükata üritasid, selle asemel et pikema jututa tuli peale tõmmata. Ka siis ei tahtnud kaks tuumariiki asja liiga teravaks ajada.
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Kirves pole mänguasi, raiuge see omale pealuu sisse!
"Suured inimesed on ikka tõesti imelikud," ütles ta endamisi lihtsal moel, kui ta oma teekonda jätkas.
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Veidi jälle omavahel kaklust
Indian troops clash with Chinese soldiers along contested border in the Himalayas
https://twitter.com/business/status/1300359182479241217
India and China relations have entered a critical new phase following fresh conflict along their disputed Himalayan border, after multiple rounds of high-level military talks failed to end the months-long standoff.

The defense ministry in New Delhi said on Monday its soldiers were able to stop a push by Chinese troops to claim more ground late Saturday in violation of existing agreements.

Beijing denied its troops had strayed into Indian territory and said it was in close communication with New Delhi, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a daily briefing in Beijing on Monday. “Chinese border troops always strictly abide by the Line of Actual Control,” Zhao said.

The Indian army undermined the consensus reached in previous multi-level talks between the two sides and once again illegally crossed the line on the south bank of Pangong Tso, Senior Colonel Zhang Shuili, spokesman for the Western Theater Command of the People’s Liberation Army, said in a statement late Monday evening.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... yan-border
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Pangong Tso mägijärve kallastel langes üks India tiibetlastest koosneva mägikommandode eriüksuse võitleja ja teine sai haavata miiniplahvatuses.
Nyima was part of the Special Frontier Force (SFF), his family and three Indian government officials said.

The force recruits mostly from Tibetan refugees, hundreds of thousands of whom have made India their home since the Dalai Lama fled Tibet following a failed uprising in 1959. Some are Indian citizens.

Few details are publicly known about the covert force set up soon after a war between India and China in 1962. Two officials estimated its strength at more than 3,500 men.

Amitabh Mathur, a former Indian government adviser on Tibetan affairs, said the SFF were “crack troops, especially in the context of mountain climbing and high-altitude warfare.

“If at all they (SFF) were deployed, I am not surprised. It makes sense to deploy them at high altitudes. They are terrific mountain climbers and commandos.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKBN25T2JN
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USA luure arvab, et Hiina provokatsioonid Indiaga on muutunud natuke juhitamatuks ja ei suuda enam selle tõttu tõmmata Hiina armeed neist välja, ilma et näitaks oma nõrkust.
U.S. intelligence officials now believe that [Chinese President Xi Jinping] may have created a "cycle of provocations" and doesn't know how to extract the Chinese army without appearing to show weakness.
https://twitter.com/walterladwig/status ... 9885549569
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... s-believes
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https://piter.tv/event/Kitajskij_istreb ... 5d40b802e2
Väidetavalt on ameerika õhutõrjeraketiga alla lastud hiinlaste hävitaja Taiwani kohal

https://piter.tv/event/Indijskoe_voenno ... v_Ladakhe/
Hindud pidid oma sõjalist kohalolekut Ladhakis ka suurendama.
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Hiinlased valmistuvad keskaegseks sõjaks
Photos purportedly of Chinese soldiers near the Line of Actual Control in Tibet with what look's like guandao pole weapons, similar to the Medieval glaive or halberd, to be used for skirmishes with Indian troops.
Pilt
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1303389964336599041
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
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Re: Hiina ja India suhted

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ERR olukorrast piiril ja konflikti taustast: https://www.err.ee/1222297/hiina-ja-ind ... -lahendust
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Re: Hiina ja India suhted

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Kui Venemaa haaras Krimmi, siis räägiti, et Krimm on põline Vene ala. Ka Tartut, peetakse ida pool põliseks Vene alaks, kuna Jaroslav Tark asustas Jurjevi.
Kui see Krimmi annekteerimine käis, siis räägiti, et Kashastan, kui Kuldhordi otsene järglane võiks Vanemaalt tagasi küsida omad põlised alad ...
Mingi 4500 aastat peavad hiinlased oma valitsejaid Taeva Poegadeks, kelle valitsuse alla kuulub kõik, mis asub Taeva all.
Mongolite Yuani dünastia on hiinlaste käsitluse järgi Hiina riik, keda valitsesid ainult mongolid. Yuani dünastiale allusid juriidiliselt kõik mongolite riigid. Koldhord, Tšagatai riik, Il - khanaate. Peale Yuani dünastiat tulnud Mingi dünastia jaoks oli isegi Timur (noh see lonkur) vasalliks, sest tema esivanemad olid ju Yuani dünastia vasallideks. Seega põhimõtteliselt Terve Venemaa (Koos Tartu linnaga), suur osa Aasiast, põhimõtteliselt Hiina põlised alad.
Babur, kes vallutas India ja rajas Mogulite riigi, oli ka Yuani dünastia vasallide järglane, seega Hiina riigi vasall ja seega ka India on Hiina põline ala :D
Me oleme ju siin, et isamaad kaitsta. Aga prantslased on ju ka siin, et oma isamaad kaitsta. Kellel siis õigus on?
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