Läti üksustest saksa poolel

Eestlased ning eestlastest koosnevad üksused, relvad, lahingud, varustus, autasud jne jne...
Steiner
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Nojah, need olid samalaadsed omaloomingud nagu "estland" ja "Narva" käiselint.
Niisisi, selle "Riga" patlajoniga. Ei leia enam üles seda materjali :( Kuid nagu, jah, Ivalo mainis, siis moodustati ta politsei pataljonidest ja võitles Lätis. Vist koos Diviisidega, ei mäleta enam nii täpselt. Igastahes hästi madistasid, kui lindi said. Kuramus, et seda lindi pilti ei leia enam...
Aga seda läti leeginäride käiselinti tahaks täitsa näha küll ;)

P.S. Suht informatiivset lugemist (kui välja arvate see juutide jne killimise jutt :)
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/resources/b ... hap02.html
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ivalo
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kui võtta arvesse ,et pat. Narva kuulus Westlandi rügementi 3. pataljonina oli kõikselihtsam teha Westland`i lindist Estland - ei usu ka mina ,et selliseid linte ametlikult eksisteeris ?!
-=Grenadier=-
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siin siis 1 foto, kus läti vabatahtlikul on varrukal "Lett. SS-Frw. Div." käiselint - pilt on küll udune ja ähmane aga on näha, mis lindil kirjas :wink:

http://www.zone.ee/eestisojavagi/lati.jpg?2
http://www.zone.ee/eestisojavagi/lenta.jpg?2
foorum.rindeleht.ee
Steiner
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Kuradi kurat, siuke asi nõudsi juba nö eritellimusel tegemist. Äkki mamma kodus õmbles? :) Aga ikkagi, (minu teada) ametlikult Läti diviisidele ei väljastatud käiselinte. Kuigi see siin nagu läheks samasse klassi sellistega nagu, kui "Legion Norge", "Osttürkicher Waffen Verband der SS" jmt. Aga esimest korda näen ja arvan siiski, et see on suke self made asi. A mine võta kinni...
Frundsberg
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Käiselintide kohta ei oska midagi täpsemalt öelda, aga sellist Läti linti ei ole isegi võltsinguna varem näinud. Kuidas üldse see käiselintide üksusele kinnitamine käis, ei usu, et lihtsalt telliti lindid ja asuti aga kandma?

See läheb vist küll nüüd juba legendi valdkonda, aga kas keegi on kuulnud sellest, et peale läbikukkunud vasturünnakut Budapesti juures 1945 olevat seal ebaõnnestunud diviisidel (Wiking, Das Reich...) keelatud edaspidi käiselintide kandmine ning lindid tulnud varrukatelt maha harutada?
-=Grenadier=-
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ma olen lugenud, et peale atendaati hitlerile keelati SS diviisidel käiselintide kandmine :roll:
foorum.rindeleht.ee
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hugo1
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Kas mitte ainult diviisil A.Hitler ei võetud peale seda linte ära :?: :?: :?:
Meie võitluslipp sini-must-valge
aatekõrgusse näidaku teed!
Lehvi, lehvi sa hõõguma palged.
Süüta südames õilsuse leek.
Steiner
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Waffen-SS käiselinte anti algselt ametlikult üksustele välja nende väljapaistvate lahinguliste saavutuste eest. Ennem kinnitati pataljoni/diviisi nimi, mis ei eeldanud kohe lindi saamist. Näiteks ukraina 14.Waffen-SS Grenadier division "Galicia". Linti talle ei antud, kuid oli nimi. Aga nagu mainitud, linte ei antud mitte ainult diviisidele, vaid ka pataljonidele. Näiteks 2.Waffen-SS tankidiviis "Das Reichi" pataljonid "Germania" ja "Der Führer". Pataljonidel võisid olla ka silmapaistvate pataljoni komandöride nimesid. Kuid ka see ei eeldanud koheselt lindi saamist. Näiteks 11.Waffen-SS panzergrenadierdivision "Nordland" panzer abteilung 11 "Hermann von Salza", ma ei tea küll, et talle ametlikult lint oleks antud. Aga sellised nimelised, lintidega, pataljonid olid näiteks 6. Waffen-SS mägidiviis "Nord" Gebirgsjäger Regiment 12 "Michael Gaissmair" ja 23.Waffen-SS panzergrenadierdivision "Nederland" panzergrenadier regiment 48 "General Seyffard". Neid linte kanti vormil siis allpool diviisi linti.
Lisaks siis sellised pool ametlikud, a'la "Freikorps Danmark", "Legion Norge", mis näitasid rahvusliku üksust. Need olid varajasematel leegionidel, enne diviiside moodustamist. Samas, nagu näha, Eestlased ja Lätlased tegid ka suht kõvasti omaloomingut.
Ja veel eriala lindid - SS-Kriegsberichter (sõjakirjasaatja), SS-Feldgrendarmerie (SS-sõjaväepolitsei) jmt. Neid pidi kantama alpool üksuse linte. Nii, et oli teoreetselt võimalik kanda ka kolme linti varrukal! :)
Peale atendaati küll ei kästud LSAAH linte eemaldada, seda tehti hiljem, '45 - Ebaõnnestunud operatsiooni eest Budapesti vabastamiseks, andis Hitler välja direktiivi, et selles osalenud Waffen-SS diviisid eemaldaks oma käiselindid. Karistuseks siis. Mul hetkel pole seda täpset materjali käepärast, kui huvi on, võin homseks täpsustada, mis diviisid need olid. Igastahes LSAAH (Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler) diviisi ülem Sepp Dietrich keeldus seda käsku üksusele edastamast. Kuid paljudel meestel, erinevatest diviisidest, olid käiselindid juba nii ehk naa eemaldatud, sest oli ju teada, et venelased SS'lasi ei sallind silma otsaski ja vangi langemise korral oleks ilmselt kohe kuuli saanud, kui ära tuntavad (Waffen-)SS tunnused vormil.
MOrav
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"Riga" lindist on pilt ja ka pilt sellest käisel David Littlejohni raamatu "Foreign legions of the Third Reich" ühes köites. Skännin ja panen üles millalgi.
Steiner
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Vägev värk! :) Tänud.
Vaikal
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Steiner kirjutas: "Kurland" linti võisid kanda lihtsalt Kuramaa kotis olnud Saksa üksused, mitte ainult lätlased.
"Kuralnd" käiselinti võisid kanda kõik Kuramaa "koti" võitlejad, kes vastasid lindi statuudile.
Võitjal on alati õigus?
Steiner
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Just, minu apsakas, et ei täpsustanud alguses. Aga õigus sul on. Kuid seda eriti välja jagada ei jõutud ju. Ja paljud lindid olid ka nö field made, ehk siis kohapeal tehtud. On kellelgi andmeid, palju neid välja jagati üldse? Igastahes Kuramaa lint on, vaadates hindu, suht haruldane ja seega ka kallis.
MOrav
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David Littlejohn, Foreign Legions of the Third Reich: Vol. 4" (1987), lk 172:

"The Red Army's winter offensive of 1941/42 took the Germans by surprise and there was a hasty creation of further active police units. On 1st August 1943, the first Latvian Police Regiment was formed by combining Battalions 277 (now the 1st Bn), 278 (llnd Bn), 312 (IIIrd Bn) and 276 (IVth Bn). The official designation was Latvian Volunteer Police Regiment Riga (Lett. Freiw. Pol. Rgt. Riga). On 20th September, the regiment and other units were transferred to an area 35km south of Daugavpils in Poland (called White Russia after the Russian occupation in 1939). There they engaged in a police action against Red partisans. In late October the regiment moved 70km, by forced march, until it reached Lithuania where its members boarded railway cattle cars and were transported to Idrica. The next morning the regiment advanced along a 10km wide sector towards the Necherdo and Yasno Lakes, about 45km west of Nevel, and was to halt an unopposed Russian advance which had been moving west from the Nevel area. It was here, on 7th November, that the two forces met head-on at advantageous, defensive positions the regiment had taken. The regiment was attacked by strong Russian units but the line was held. During the next two months, the remnants of the regiment, as well as Police Battalions 313 and 316, were shifted from position to position in the fluid front, halting all enemy attempts to expand their wedge which extended west from Nevel. The unflinching defense of these vital positions prevented the Russians from reaching the Gulf of Riga and the Baltic Sea during the winter of 1943/44.

On 12th January 1944 the Russians launched another offensive at the Nevel front. From mid-January to mid-March the regiment was again shifted from position to position, as the need arose, to help stem the Russian advance. The Russians, again, were denied any significant breakthrough. The battered regiment was relieved in mid-March 1944 and sent to Latvia for rest and reinforcements. There, in May 1944, the regiment was honored with a "Lett. Freiw. Pol. Rgt. Riga" cuff title in recognition of its heroic sacrifices during the winter battles of 1943/44. To this day, the survivors of the regiment stand proud of their efforts to blunt the Russian wedge at Nevel, thus, preventing Soviet access west and the entrapment of Army Group North in Estonia, and in allowing thousands of Latvian and Estonian civilians the time to escape west in the summer, a feat impossible during the brutal winter of 1943/44."

Lk 189: "The only Latvian (in fact, foreign legion) unit to be honored with a battle cuff title was "Lett. Freiw. Pol. Rgt. Riga" for its heroic stand during the winter of 1943/1944 at the Nevel front, when it denied to the Red Army the encirclement of German Army Group "North" and Latvian civilians.

It should be noted, however, that any soldier who participated in any three battles in Kurland was entitled to receive the award of cuff title "KURLAND." This was made in a variety of materials and locally produced at the time."

www.pilt.ee nagu ikka suletud "serveri hooldustööde tõttu", seega pildid järgnevad.

*

Hugh Page Taylor, Roger James Bender, "Vol. 5: Uniforms, Organization and History of the Waffen-SS" (1982), lk 48:

"CUFFBANDS65

A) DIVISIONAL:

No cuffbands were ever authorized for this Division. One bearing the word "LATVIJA" (in fact, the Germans misspelled the Latvian word for "Latvia" by writing it "LATTVIJA") appeared in SS-FHA order of 22 October 1943[66] but was cancelled in the follow-up order of 12 November
1943.[67] Either a mistake had been made in giving the cuffband in the first place, or more likely, the Germans changed their minds and considered the appearance of the word "LATVIJA" on the sleeve shield (ordered 13 September 1943)[68] adequate indication of the wearer's nationality.

Unofficially at least two patterns of cuffband are reported:

- "Lett. SS-Freiw.Legion"

- "Lett. SS-Frw.Div."

which were forbidden to be worn after 1 October 1944.[69] Former members of the Division do not remember ever having seen these cuffbands and their use - if they were worn at all - must have been very limited.

B) REGIMENTAL:

Divisional commander von Obwurzer submitted an application to the SS-FHA for a cuffband "Karlis Aperats" for the 32nd Grenadier Regiment
to commemorate its late commander, killed in action on 16 July 1944. This proposal was rejected.[70]

C) MISCELLANEOUS:

A cuffband with golden letters on red cloth was worn on the sleeve under
the Latvian sleeve shield by members of the Latvian Front Theatre when they entertained the troops on the Leningrad front in 1942.[71] The wording of this cuffband is not known.


66 Vol. 4, footnote 133.

67 lbid., footnote 134.

68 Vol. 4, footnote 131, pg. 99.

69 8.) Schulterstücke, Dienststellenabzeichen, Ärmelstreifen, 15. Waffen-Gren.-Division der 55, Ia, Div. St. Qu. Bütow, den 9.9.44, Divisionsbefehl Nr. 10 (Anzugsordnung).

70 Arturs Silgailis, letter dated 13.9.1977. The wording on the cuffband was to have been "Regiment Aperats" (sic - "Aperats" should be written with an accent thus) according to Stöber: Die lettischen Divisionen im VI. SS-Armeekorps, pg. 96."


Samas, 112-113:

"CUFF BANDS:
A cuffband "LATTVIJA" (sic - it should have been spelled "LATVIJA") was listed in the SS-FHA order of 22.10.1943[175] for the 2. Lett. SS-Freiw.Brigade. This cuffband was cancelled in the subsequent SS-FHA order of 12.11.1943.[176] It is most unlikely that any were manufactured and none were ever worn. On 15.1.1945 the honor names "Valdemar Veiss" and "Hinrich Schuldt" were given to the Waffen-Gren. Rgt. der SS 42 & 43 (lett. Nr. 1 & 2) respectively, but it is again considered unlikely in the extreme that cuff bands were worn, manufactured or even intended since it was too late in the war and the Division was cut off and fighting desperately in the Courland pocket.

Note:

The commanding general of Heeresgruppe "Kurland" recommended to Hitler in early 1945 that the men under his command be given some recognition for their services while undergoing siege in Courland. The recommendation was approved and a cuffband "Kurland" instituted on 12 March 1945. The band was manufactured in a weaving mill at Kuldiga in Courland and some of those that were issued in late April/early May 1945 may have found their way onto the left sleeve of men of the 19th SS Divi
sion. The 4cm wide cuffband has a silver-grey field upon which the shield of the Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights Order and the coat of arms of Jelgava are placed in black thread on either side of the word "KURLAND" in block capital letters.[177]


175 See footnote 2 on pg. 56 of this book.

176 See footnote 37, pg. 70 of this book.

177 Angolia: For Führer and Fatherland - Military Awards of the Third Reich, Bender Publishing, California, 1976, pp. 295-297. See also Klietmann in Feldgrau of August 1959 and Ärmelband "Kurland," Ordenskunde Nr. 15, "Die Ordens-Sammlung," Berlin, 1960. Kažocinš (letter of 19.2.81) is doubtful over Angolia's description of the manufacturing of the cuffband as he believes there was no silver-grey thread available at the weaving mill in Kuldiga at that time. He believes the band was woven in white thread with some sort of border, while the lettering and insignia on both ends were sewn on by hand at the homes of Latvian needlewomen. Bands were also made from any available material and the better made and more regular a specimen, the more likely it is to be a post-war reproduction."
toomas tyrk
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Hulk teemasse sobimatuid poste kustutatud.

Kui on soov mõnda muud küsimust arutada - tee selleks oma teema.

Isiklik kirjavahetus paluks privaatsõnumitega.

Juba loodud teemas tuleks hoida juba alustatut.
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Lubatud "Riga" pildid (jätkus kannatust laadimist ära oodata...)

http://www.pilt.ee/photo/400710/10233145/

http://www.pilt.ee/photo/400710/10233403/
Vasta

Kes on foorumil

Kasutajad foorumit lugemas: Registreeritud kasutajaid pole ja 2 külalist