Tere Õpetaja!
Olen uurinud eelpool mainitud teemat, lõuna- eestis (Võru- Põlva). Vanarahvas on küllaltki kidakeelne, aga asi susiseb...
Hävituspataljonide (1941) rahvuslikust koosseisust
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Külaline
Muide, hävituspataljonide teemaga on tegelenud ju Jüri Lina! "Skorpioni märgi all", lk. 433 seab ta Levini väite kahtluse alla, sest (tsiteerin): "... Mart Laar ütleb oma raamatus "Metsavennad" (Tallinn, 1993, lk. 24), et Eestis eksisteeris koguni omaette juudi hävituspataljon. Kui 320 võrdub vähemalt 120-ga, siis on tegemist sionistliku aritmeetikaga. ... Mõne sõjaajaloolase arvates moodustasid nad hävituspataljonide koosseisust koguni 6%, niisiis oli neid vähemalt 540 meest. ("Eesti Ekspress", 7. juuni 1991).
Lina teatab ka leheküljel 434, et HP-des oli eestlasi kõigest 40%. Allikat aga ei anna.
Lina allikana muidugi ei maksa kasutada, aga huviline võiks järele vaadata, mis tema poolt viidatud kirjatükkides siis kirjas on.
Lina teatab ka leheküljel 434, et HP-des oli eestlasi kõigest 40%. Allikat aga ei anna.
Lina allikana muidugi ei maksa kasutada, aga huviline võiks järele vaadata, mis tema poolt viidatud kirjatükkides siis kirjas on.
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Õpetaja
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Charlemagne
- Liige
- Postitusi: 1483
- Liitunud: 12 Juun, 2005 18:33
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J.Lina ei anna reeglina üldse allikaviiteid, kui aga annabki, siis on need tihti samasugustest allikatest nagu ta isegi või lausa kollasest ajakirjandusest ja science fictionist. Lina fenomen selles ju seisnebki, et ivakene tõtt tema lugudes on ja selle ümber tohutu jahu keeratud. Mõelgem loogiliselt, kui eksisteeriks selline vägev juutide-illuminaatide vandenõu, siis miks Lina teosed on saadaval raamatukogudes vabalt ja miks mees ise veel kuue laua vahel pole? Olen proovinud analüüsida Lina andunud lugejaskonda, suur osa neist on okultismi,spiritismi ja muu nõiavärgi uskujad ja uurijad. Neile anna kätte mida iganes. Ajalooallikana aga Lina on rohkem kui kaheldav. Loomulikult on see minu arvamus, heameelega kuulaks ka teiste omi.
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kapralheinz
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- Postitusi: 260
- Liitunud: 08 Juun, 2005 22:02
- Asukoht: Tallinn
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Lina teostes pole praktiliselt midagi uut. Kõik tema poolt kirjapandu on vaid teatud faktide või ilmunud teoste eestindamine. Kuid kui olen teda vahel tuntavalt ta omi, isiklikke mõtteid või teemaarendusi avaldamas kuulnud, on küll mulje, - et vist sellel hommikul jäid rohud võtmata...
Viimati muutis kapralheinz, 12 Juul, 2005 22:42, muudetud 1 kord kokku.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35wkGEnD ... ed&search=]"Panzerlied"[/url]
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Charlemagne
- Liige
- Postitusi: 1483
- Liitunud: 12 Juun, 2005 18:33
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Õpetaja
Viitsisin siis lõpuks Levinit vaadata. Asjaomane tekst on seal lk 276-278:
"According to a decree issued by the Soviet Government on June 24, twenty-five special shock units (istrebitel'niye batalyoni) were formed in Estonia to fight as paratroopers and sappers. These troops were under the jurisdiction of the internal and security authorities and the units included, militia men as well as government personnel, Communist Party and Komsomol members, trade unionists and many civilian volunteers. On the average each unit had about two hundred men who were armed with light weapons. While covering the retreat of the armed forces and the evacuation of the population, these units were often forced to fight against Estonian pro-Nazis as well as against the advance columns of the German Army and they sustained very heavy losses. In all, approximately nine thousand men fought in these units,[3] among them at least 120 Jews[4] (about 1.1% of the combattants or three times the percentage of Jews in the entire population).
The Jewish soldiers came from various backgrounds and were especially motivated to fight against the Nazis. Thus, for example, militiaman Gershon Zimbalov, who fought and fell in the ranks of the Tallin battalion, came from a family in Tallin known to be adherents of the Communist Party. Among the others who fell in battle were Josef Myasnikov, a leader of the Netzach (Zionist) Movement in Estonia and several veteran Communists, some of whom had fought in the Spanish Civil War, such as Aharon Taub and unit commander Victor Feigin, who held various high positions in the security service during the period of Soviet rule in Estonia. It is particularly noteworthy that entire families, including women, volunteered for service: the women of the Paatz family, Yaakov Pesah and his sister Zelda, the three brothers of the Smolenskin family from Tallin, Avraham ("Ami") and Moshe, both of whom fell in the rearguard fighting in Estonia in 1941, and Reuven, who served as a lieutenant in the Estonian Corps of the Red Army and fell in the fighting for the liberation of Saarame island in late 1944. Most of these soldiers fell in battle or died of their wounds and were buried in mass graves near the battlefields. Indirect references to the high level of their courageous fighting are found in Soviet-Estonian historiography,[5] which generally stresses the bravery of the Estonians.
Tens of Jews fought in the 22nd Estonian Territorial Corps in the course of their regular army service. The Jewish soldiers usually suffered from the anti-Soviet atmosphere in the Corps, and upon the outbreak of the fighting their situation worsened to such an extent that they feared their comrades-in-arms as much as the enemy. Isaac Kahan, who had been wounded in the rearguard fighting in Estonia, was taken to a hospital and handed over by his Estonian comrades to the Germans, who executed him.[6] A similar fate befell 19 year-old Elhanan Heymann of Tartu and the other Jewish soldiers in an auxiliary unit, which together with its officers deserted and joined the Germans. Those who survived the rearguard battles volunteered for, or were drafted into, the 8th Estonian Corps, which was later established in the framework of the Red Army.
[3] According to a source based on the archives of the Soviet Defence Ministry, a total of 8,980 men served in these battalions. On July 4, the 17 local battalions had 2,700 men and on July 8, 3,200 men. A. Larin, Estonski narod v Velikoy Otechestvennoy voyne, Akademiya nauk Estonskoy SSR, Tallin, p. 50 (hereafter — Larin). Another Soviet source gives the figure of 10,000 combattants in 27 formations. A. K. Panskeyev (ed.), Otcherki istorii komuniticheskoy partii Estonii, III, Tallin, 1970, p. 114 (hereafter — Panskeyev). According to a German source there was a total of 14 battalions in Estonia and Latvia, with each battalion composed of 300 to 400 men. Ereignismeldung UdSSR, No. 51, August 25, 1941 (hereafter — Ereignismeldung).
[4] According to the testimony of M. Shar, a Jewish public figure from Tallin, there were at least 120 Jews in the battalions in Estonia (letter of March 5, 1967). A list compiled in Israel based on the testimony of Jews from Estonia, and in particular on the information kindly given to the author by Mr. Yaakov Kaplan of Tel-Aviv (formerly of Tartu), contains the names of eighty Jews and biographical details concerning a number of them. At least sixty of those whose names appear on the list fell in battle. The data on the Jewish combattants in the battalions in this paper is based on the above-mentioned list. On the basis of the interrogation of 260 prisoners of war from the battalions, the German source referred to above states in a daily report that "There are many Jews [in the shock battalions] and of course they play a very important role." Ereignismeldung, p. 3.
[5] Tartu Komsomol, Tallin, 1970, pp. 129-130, 140, 146-148 (hereafter — The Komsomol in Tartu). Among the Jewish soldiers who fought and fell on Estonian soil in the ranks of the Latvian Battalion was Benny Luria, aged 24. Ibid., p. 17; see also Larin, p. 85.
[6] Testimony of Pivovarov, p. 44. The testimonies cited in the text were recorded by the author for the Oral History Division of the Institute of Contemporary Jewry of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem (hereafter — OHD-ICJ)."
Noja "E. r. kannatuste aasta" I hävituspataljonide peatükis on ka paar lk juudi nimesid ja juttu ka rahvuslikust koostisest.
"According to a decree issued by the Soviet Government on June 24, twenty-five special shock units (istrebitel'niye batalyoni) were formed in Estonia to fight as paratroopers and sappers. These troops were under the jurisdiction of the internal and security authorities and the units included, militia men as well as government personnel, Communist Party and Komsomol members, trade unionists and many civilian volunteers. On the average each unit had about two hundred men who were armed with light weapons. While covering the retreat of the armed forces and the evacuation of the population, these units were often forced to fight against Estonian pro-Nazis as well as against the advance columns of the German Army and they sustained very heavy losses. In all, approximately nine thousand men fought in these units,[3] among them at least 120 Jews[4] (about 1.1% of the combattants or three times the percentage of Jews in the entire population).
The Jewish soldiers came from various backgrounds and were especially motivated to fight against the Nazis. Thus, for example, militiaman Gershon Zimbalov, who fought and fell in the ranks of the Tallin battalion, came from a family in Tallin known to be adherents of the Communist Party. Among the others who fell in battle were Josef Myasnikov, a leader of the Netzach (Zionist) Movement in Estonia and several veteran Communists, some of whom had fought in the Spanish Civil War, such as Aharon Taub and unit commander Victor Feigin, who held various high positions in the security service during the period of Soviet rule in Estonia. It is particularly noteworthy that entire families, including women, volunteered for service: the women of the Paatz family, Yaakov Pesah and his sister Zelda, the three brothers of the Smolenskin family from Tallin, Avraham ("Ami") and Moshe, both of whom fell in the rearguard fighting in Estonia in 1941, and Reuven, who served as a lieutenant in the Estonian Corps of the Red Army and fell in the fighting for the liberation of Saarame island in late 1944. Most of these soldiers fell in battle or died of their wounds and were buried in mass graves near the battlefields. Indirect references to the high level of their courageous fighting are found in Soviet-Estonian historiography,[5] which generally stresses the bravery of the Estonians.
Tens of Jews fought in the 22nd Estonian Territorial Corps in the course of their regular army service. The Jewish soldiers usually suffered from the anti-Soviet atmosphere in the Corps, and upon the outbreak of the fighting their situation worsened to such an extent that they feared their comrades-in-arms as much as the enemy. Isaac Kahan, who had been wounded in the rearguard fighting in Estonia, was taken to a hospital and handed over by his Estonian comrades to the Germans, who executed him.[6] A similar fate befell 19 year-old Elhanan Heymann of Tartu and the other Jewish soldiers in an auxiliary unit, which together with its officers deserted and joined the Germans. Those who survived the rearguard battles volunteered for, or were drafted into, the 8th Estonian Corps, which was later established in the framework of the Red Army.
[3] According to a source based on the archives of the Soviet Defence Ministry, a total of 8,980 men served in these battalions. On July 4, the 17 local battalions had 2,700 men and on July 8, 3,200 men. A. Larin, Estonski narod v Velikoy Otechestvennoy voyne, Akademiya nauk Estonskoy SSR, Tallin, p. 50 (hereafter — Larin). Another Soviet source gives the figure of 10,000 combattants in 27 formations. A. K. Panskeyev (ed.), Otcherki istorii komuniticheskoy partii Estonii, III, Tallin, 1970, p. 114 (hereafter — Panskeyev). According to a German source there was a total of 14 battalions in Estonia and Latvia, with each battalion composed of 300 to 400 men. Ereignismeldung UdSSR, No. 51, August 25, 1941 (hereafter — Ereignismeldung).
[4] According to the testimony of M. Shar, a Jewish public figure from Tallin, there were at least 120 Jews in the battalions in Estonia (letter of March 5, 1967). A list compiled in Israel based on the testimony of Jews from Estonia, and in particular on the information kindly given to the author by Mr. Yaakov Kaplan of Tel-Aviv (formerly of Tartu), contains the names of eighty Jews and biographical details concerning a number of them. At least sixty of those whose names appear on the list fell in battle. The data on the Jewish combattants in the battalions in this paper is based on the above-mentioned list. On the basis of the interrogation of 260 prisoners of war from the battalions, the German source referred to above states in a daily report that "There are many Jews [in the shock battalions] and of course they play a very important role." Ereignismeldung, p. 3.
[5] Tartu Komsomol, Tallin, 1970, pp. 129-130, 140, 146-148 (hereafter — The Komsomol in Tartu). Among the Jewish soldiers who fought and fell on Estonian soil in the ranks of the Latvian Battalion was Benny Luria, aged 24. Ibid., p. 17; see also Larin, p. 85.
[6] Testimony of Pivovarov, p. 44. The testimonies cited in the text were recorded by the author for the Oral History Division of the Institute of Contemporary Jewry of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem (hereafter — OHD-ICJ)."
Noja "E. r. kannatuste aasta" I hävituspataljonide peatükis on ka paar lk juudi nimesid ja juttu ka rahvuslikust koostisest.
See ka netis saadaval
Estonian Jews in the U.S.S.R. (1941-1945) : research based on survivor's testimony / Dov Levin
Reprint
Jerusalem, 1976.
Lk. 273-297 ; 22 cm
Separaat väljaandest: Yad Vashem studies, Vol. 11.
http://eja.pri.ee/Community/Dov%20Levin.pdf
Estonian Jews in the U.S.S.R. (1941-1945) : research based on survivor's testimony / Dov Levin
Reprint
Jerusalem, 1976.
Lk. 273-297 ; 22 cm
Separaat väljaandest: Yad Vashem studies, Vol. 11.
http://eja.pri.ee/Community/Dov%20Levin.pdf
Kustutasin kaasfoorumlasi solvava postituse.
Viimati muutis sadist, 16 Veebr, 2007 11:46, muudetud 1 kord kokku.
Re: Hävituspataljonide (1941) rahvuslikust koosseisust
Hävituspataljoni liikmete nimekirjad 1941
ERA.R-64.1.119a
Enamus on eestlased, üsna palju naiste nimesid...
Leidsin sealt muuhulgas ka kaebused mõnede liikmete meelsuse ja ühe "parteikandidaadi, ateismi sektsiooni sekretäri" kes "läks üle Saksa kaitseväkke" ja on "preagu Tallinnas või võtab osa Saaremaa vallutamisest" kohta.
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https://www.ra.ee/dgs/browser.php?tid=3 ... 940bf82f03
ERA.R-64.1.119a
Enamus on eestlased, üsna palju naiste nimesid...
Leidsin sealt muuhulgas ka kaebused mõnede liikmete meelsuse ja ühe "parteikandidaadi, ateismi sektsiooni sekretäri" kes "läks üle Saksa kaitseväkke" ja on "preagu Tallinnas või võtab osa Saaremaa vallutamisest" kohta.
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Kes on foorumil
Kasutajad foorumit lugemas: Registreeritud kasutajaid pole ja 1 külaline