VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
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Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Isand Fucs, millisele reale te olete paigutanud oma valemis kergelt soomustatud masinad?
Ahmat: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524597 ... th-an-atgm
Tigr: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524349 ... re-on-fire
Jne...
Eks ole märgiline sellise tehnika kasutamine "rindetaksona". Ootame, jälgime, kui see muutub trendiks on see kindel märk venelaste meeleheite teisest faasist(esimene oli MTLB ja BRDM kasutamine).
Teine küsitavus su valemis on "nulli" jõudmine. Ei usu iial, et venelased on nõus kogu oma tehnika läänerindel maha põletama, midagi jätavad ikka reservi. Seega arvan, et venelaste agoonia lõppvaatus juba käib, nende soomusrusikas on kildudeks ja köndiga suudavad ehk kolm kuud veel vehkida... Sest et olen optimist.
Ahmat: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524597 ... th-an-atgm
Tigr: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524349 ... re-on-fire
Jne...
Eks ole märgiline sellise tehnika kasutamine "rindetaksona". Ootame, jälgime, kui see muutub trendiks on see kindel märk venelaste meeleheite teisest faasist(esimene oli MTLB ja BRDM kasutamine).
Teine küsitavus su valemis on "nulli" jõudmine. Ei usu iial, et venelased on nõus kogu oma tehnika läänerindel maha põletama, midagi jätavad ikka reservi. Seega arvan, et venelaste agoonia lõppvaatus juba käib, nende soomusrusikas on kildudeks ja köndiga suudavad ehk kolm kuud veel vehkida... Sest et olen optimist.
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Antud olukorras on "null" siis, kui on jõutud kriitilise piirini - miinimum vajadus Putin&Co julgeoleku tagamiseks.seersant Angua kirjutas: ↑11 Dets, 2024 21:39 ... Teine küsitavus su valemis on "nulli" jõudmine. Ei usu iial, et venelased on nõus kogu oma tehnika läänerindel maha põletama, midagi jätavad ikka reservi...
Välisvaenlast nad praegu ei pea kartma, sest Hiinale oleks selline impotendist vasall kasulikum kui maa hõivamine ja kui tulekski, siis koondab välisvaenlane rahva jälle Moskva selja taha. Vajadusel ka jala marssides!
Sisemine oht on see, mida karta - võimu ülevõtjad või iseseisvuda tahtvad regioonid!
Paljude raamatute lugemine teeb inimese palju lugenud isikuks, kuid ei pruugi teha teda targaks...
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Sellega saadakse Hiina abiga veel paremini hakkama
.

Miks Venemaa Ukrainas sõdib?
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Kasutatud andmete poolel:seersant Angua kirjutas: ↑11 Dets, 2024 21:39 Isand Fucs, millisele reale te olete paigutanud oma valemis kergelt soomustatud masinad?
Ahmat: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524597 ... th-an-atgm
Tigr: https://censor.net/en/videonews/3524349 ... re-on-fire
Jne...
Eks ole märgiline sellise tehnika kasutamine "rindetaksona". Ootame, jälgime, kui see muutub trendiks on see kindel märk venelaste meeleheite teisest faasist(esimene oli MTLB ja BRDM kasutamine).
Teine küsitavus su valemis on "nulli" jõudmine. Ei usu iial, et venelased on nõus kogu oma tehnika läänerindel maha põletama, midagi jätavad ikka reservi. Seega arvan, et venelaste agoonia lõppvaatus juba käib, nende soomusrusikas on kildudeks ja köndiga suudavad ehk kolm kuud veel vehkida... Sest et olen optimist.
* UKR PS andmed.
Ma pole 100% kindel, aga tundub nii, et UKR PS esitab "боевых бронированных машин" ("soomustatud lahingumasinad") jaotises BTR;BMP;BMD ja nende erinevad aretuste/tüüpide kaotused. MTLB-de kohta ei oska ütelda. "Tigr" jms soomusautod on ilmselt jaotises "автомобильная техника и автоцистерны" ("autotehnika ja paakautod/kütuseveokid/tankurmasinad")
* Muud allikad loetlevad tavaliselt ka peamiselt BTR;BMP;BMD erinevat tüüpi masinaid (Miltarybalance-st leiab ka muid muidugi).
Arvutustes on kasutatud üksnes BTR;BMP;BMD kohta käivaid andmeid või kui pole allikast üheselt ja kindlalt aru saada, siis "eeldatavasti ainult BTR;BMP;BMD kohta käivaid andmeid".
Need MTLB-d on selles suhtes hea küsimus, et neid on ka "lahingumasina" versioonis olemas... mistõttu ma kaldun arvama, et UKR PS "боевых бронированных машин" jaotises võivad olla ka need.
eelkõige МТ-ЛБВМ; МТ-ЛБВМК; МТ-ЛБМ (Объект 6МА; 6МБ; jne).
"Nulli" tähendab üldiselt seda, et vanad lao- jms varud on läbi ja juurde tuleb üksnes seda mida juurde toota jõutakse.
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Saksamaal toimunud droonijuhtumid
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/18 ... 9617320316Several drones have flown over sensitive industrial facilities and the Ramstein air base in Germany - Der Spiegel
According to a confidential report by German security authorities, there were numerous drone sightings in the evening hours of December 3 and 4 over the air base, but no drone pilot was found. The US Army confirmed the suspicious drone flights.
The newspaper also reported drone sightings in recent weeks over locations belonging to the German arms manufacturer Rheinmetall and the chemicals group BASF.
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
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Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
See on päris kole lugu. Euroopa ja NATO on lödipükslust täis. Sadakse aru, et mittemidagi tegemine kutsub esile üha rohkem venelaste laiamist aga ikka ei juleta teha midagi.
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/brush- ... r-08b5b182
USA luure väidab, et Soome-Saksa kaabli lõhkus Yi Peng 3 Vene luure käsul.
https://bsky.app/profile/pekka.bsky.soc ... emksbma22i
Läänemeri on sanktsioonide murdmise kiirtee, Venemaa veab oma salalaevastikuga siin miljardite eest naftat ja lõhub meelega kaableid. NATO lake my ass.
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/brush- ... r-08b5b182
USA luure väidab, et Soome-Saksa kaabli lõhkus Yi Peng 3 Vene luure käsul.
https://bsky.app/profile/pekka.bsky.soc ... emksbma22i
Läänemeri on sanktsioonide murdmise kiirtee, Venemaa veab oma salalaevastikuga siin miljardite eest naftat ja lõhub meelega kaableid. NATO lake my ass.
The Merkuriy missile corvette, one of Russia’s most advanced naval assets, was escorting an oil tanker in the Baltic Sea when the German warship approached.
The German frigate F223 had followed the two Russian ships up to a spot near the Danish island of Bornholm before it dispatched its Sea Lynx helicopter, armed with powerful surveillance equipment, to have a closer look after a series of incidents in the area had put security forces on edge.
The Russian corvette responded by shooting flares at the aircraft, forcing the pilot to turn back. No one was hurt and the helicopter, designed to hunt and destroy submarines, wasn’t damaged, German officials said.
This incident on Nov. 26, the details of which haven’t previously been reported, was part of an increasingly heated standoff between Russia and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Europe, with the Baltic region emerging as the key flashpoint in a confrontation unseen since the height of the Cold War.
Since Vladimir Putin launched the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russian warships have fired warning shots at NATO vessels, powerful Russian jamming systems have disrupted air traffic and Russian jet fighters have conducted dangerous maneuvers, including dumping fuel on allied spy planes in the skies over the Baltics, according to multiple Western officials.
Beyond military signaling, Russia has escalated an often violent campaign of sabotage and subterfuge.
Critical infrastructure such as data cables and pipelines has been attacked by commercial ships that Western security officials say were used by Russian intelligence. Clandestine Russian operators used Lithuania, a Baltic nation, as a springboard for a terror operation involving shipping incendiary devices on commercial aircraft using services such as the logistics giant DHL, according to Western intelligence and law-enforcement officials.
In Britain, a man has admitted to carrying out an arson attack on a Ukrainian- owned property in London on behalf of Russia. In Poland, a shopping mall was torched, with authorities suspecting Russia to be behind the incident.
The threat from such so-called hybrid attacks, which fall below the threshold of direct military confrontation yet endanger lives and critical infrastructure, is becoming so high that one of the nations affected could conceivably consider triggering NATO’s collective defense clause, Bruno Kahl, the head of Germany’s foreign-intelligence service, said in a rare public warning last month.
Jens Stoltenberg, the former two-time NATO secretary-general, said that during his tenure, which ended in October, Russia expanded the range of its targets, including destructive sabotage, cyberattacks and interfering in elections in European Union nations that belong to the security alliance.
“It’s a real threat...and part of a Russian campaign of hostile acts against EU and NATO members in Europe,” said Stoltenberg, now head of the Munich Security Conference, a global security forum.
“There is no doubt that Russia is involved, and Russian security services are connected to several people arrested,” he said. “The aim is to create confusion, to undermine the political support for Ukraine, and also to intervene in political processes in our countries.”
NATO allies have stepped up intelligence sharing and set up a dedicated outfit for protecting critical undersea infrastructure during his tenure, he said, gathering evidence against suspected Russian perpetrators.
Russia’s onslaught in Ukraine prompted Sweden and Finland to join NATO, and now eight of the nine nations that enclose the Baltic Sea are members of the alliance, prompting jubilant commentary from allied leaders that it had become a “NATO lake.”
Yet Russia has since significantly boosted its military presence in the region, escalating its aggressive posture toward the neighbors in a way unseen since the Cold War, Germany’s defense minister, Boris Pistorius, said.
He confirmed the incident with the German navy helicopter in a statement and said that Germany’s navy acted in a “de-escalatory” way. The navies of Germany and other allies would now increase their presence in the Baltic, he said.
Further confrontations in the waters are likely.
Russia relies heavily on its Baltic ports for servicing its fleet because Turkey denies all warships passage through the Bosporus, which connects the Mediterranean with the Black Sea, home to the Kremlin’s key naval bases. Apart from the Baltic, the last remaining Russian naval stronghold in ice-free waters in the wider region is in Syria—and Moscow might be pushed out of there after its ally Bashar al-Assad was toppled by Islamist insurgents.
In addition, Russia’s so-called shadow tanker fleet uses the Baltic to ship cargo such as oil, arms and other material in violation of Western sanctions. The General Skobelev, the tanker that sailed with the Russian corvette last month, has been shipping oil from the Baltic to Russian naval installations in Syria, according to Western military and security officials.
There are other potential tripwires in the Baltic.
The German F223 frigate involved in the incident with Russia’s Merkuriy corvette was deployed to patrol the area, together with other German, Danish and Swedish warships, after a Chinese-owned bulk carrier called Yi Peng 3 was detained on Nov. 19 on suspicion that it deliberately severed two data cables— one linking Finland and Lithuania and the second linking Germany and Sweden— by dragging its anchor for many hours. The ship has since been anchored in the Kattegat Strait between Denmark and Sweden, surrounded by police vessels and NATO warships.
Investigators say they believe that its Chinese captain was induced by Russian
Baltic Sea
intelligence to cut the cables with the ship’s anchor. China is cooperating with the
investigation, according to Chinese and European officials, and has ordered the ship to drop anchor. But Beijing hasn’t yet allowed investigators to board the ship and question its crew.
On Nov. 21, the Merkuriy, which mainly operates in the Mediterranean and often escorts Russian sanction-busting cargo ships, arrived in the Kattegat and engaged in electronic surveillance of the Yi Peng 3 and the area around it as it accompanied the General Skobelev toward the Baltic, according to officials. They said the Russian corvette relayed encrypted information to a Russian headquarters in Kaliningrad, Russia’s Baltic exclave.
NATO has so far struggled to respond to these assaults and in some cases authorities have decided not to attribute them to Russia in order to not spread panic among their populations, according to multiple officials.
“We can’t really defend the entire critical structure—cables, pipelines, energy facilities, data centers—from hybrid attacks,” said Nico Lange, former chief of staff at the German Ministry of Defense. “Only now we understand how very, very vulnerable we are.”
Ignoring attacks invites more aggression, but attributing them is also difficult because NATO countries would be under pressure to respond without having good options to do so, said Christopher Chivvis, a former U.S. national intelligence officer for Europe who served under the Trump and Biden administrations.
“Our adversaries like hybrid warfare exactly because it’s so hard to respond to directly and proportionally; the West is so much more open and easy to penetrate for such subterfuge than Russia,” Chivvis, now senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said.
For Western democracies, the bar for responding in kind—with covert action inside Russia—is extremely high, Chivvis said. Governments should focus instead on increasing resilience, mitigating damage and boosting their capabilities to deter Moscow.
Some governments are already doing this. Finland has worked to prepare critical infrastructure firms, including by building backup cables and other contingency plans. Germany has been issuing detailed briefings to some companies, including in the shipping industry.
In the Czech Republic, where defense contractors as well as other companies have been repeatedly targeted by sabotage attempts, including arson, the government is working with the private sector to build up resilience and preparedness, said Tomas Kopecny, the Czech government envoy for the reconstruction of Ukraine.
“We train companies at board level—everyone starting from the CEO must know this is an issue, how to prepare for it, and how to react when it happens,” Kopecny said.
Adapting to the threat means that businesses and civilian installations would need inbuilt security such as surveillance technology, security guards and drones, which requires expensive investment. Only a change of legislation forcing companies to take those steps can guarantee that, said Lange, the former German defense official.
Some old Cold War hands argue that Russia has simply returned to a posture that was customary before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
“This is normal business, but the West has developed ‘war hypochondria,’ ” said James Droxford, a former British naval-intelligence officer who now runs a maritime-intelligence consulting firm and detected the Merkuriy as it entered the Kattegat last month.
Chivvis, the former U.S. intelligence official, agrees that Moscow’s subterfuge hasn’t had a major impact so far, but warned that Russia is “playing with fire” by escalating with plots such as the one involving shipping firebombs on commercial airplanes.
“That incident is really alarming and it puts Russia in the category of Iran when it comes to terror,” he said, even if “traditionally, it never wanted to be in that category.”
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
HIina laev proovis ka lõhkuda teisi kaableid.
Sama artikkel Taani lehes, mis ülevalpool tõlgitud
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2024-12-16-nye-u ... -eksperter
https://x.com/HthHans/status/1868914006691311649Yi Peng 3 also tried to damage three cables betweenDenmark and
Sweden with its anchor in the morning of 7 November 2024 new investigation shows.
Sama artikkel Taani lehes, mis ülevalpool tõlgitud
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/2024-12-16-nye-u ... -eksperter
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Rumeenias mõisteti 5,5-ks aastaks vangi kohalik, kes tegeles oma vabal ajal NATO ja Rumeenia sõjaväe järgi luuramisega ning saatis tehtud pildid orkide saatkonda
https://hotnews.ro/romanul-acuzat-ca-a- ... ei-1863407Alexandru Pişcan, remanded in custody in May, received a reduced sentence after admitting his guilt during the trial, writes Agerpres .
Alexandru Pişcan, accused by DIICOT of having sent images of Romanian or NATO military targets to the Russian Embassy in Bucharest , was sentenced by the Bucharest Court of Appeal to five years and six months in prison with execution for committing the crime of treason, in continuous form .
The man was pre-arrested on May 23, the measure being later extended several times.
DIICOT claims that, starting in 2022, Alexandru Pişcan proceeded to supervise some Romanian or NATO military objectives located in the vicinity of the city of Tulcea, collecting information of a military nature and taking photographs regarding military combat equipment and the movement of personnel in the border area with Ukraine , which he sent to diplomats from the Embassy of the Russian Federation in Bucharest.
According to the Criminal Code, the crime of treason is punishable by 10 to 20 years in prison, but Alexandru Pişcan received a reduced sentence after he admitted his guilt during the trial.
One day after Pișcan's arrest, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MAE) announced that the Romanian authorities decided to declare a diplomat of the Embassy of the Russian Federation in Bucharest persona non grata on Romanian territory, for activities that contravene the provisions of the 1961 Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations.
"These elements were communicated to the Russian side today, May 24, 2024, during the convocation at the headquarters of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, at the disposal of the Minister of Foreign Affairs Luminița Odobescu, of the chargé d'affaires of the Russian Federation in Bucharest," stated the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Aitame veel kirjaoskamatut säutsukopeerijat
Soome president väitis, et temal sellist infot ei ole ja et WSJ on ka varem kahtlase infoga esinenud (ta kasutas küll sõna "mielenkiintoisia")
Presidentti Stubb tyrmää The Wall Street Journalin uutisen Venäjän osuudesta kaapelirikkoon https://www.hs.fi/alueet/art-2000010906524.html
Viidatud säutsus kirjutatakse, et WSJ VÄITIS, et Yi Peng 3 sai instruktsioonid otse Vene luurelt ja et WSJ VÄITIS, et tema info allikas on anonüümne USA luureallikas.USA luure väidab, et Soome-Saksa kaabli lõhkus Yi Peng 3 Vene luure käsul.
https://bsky.app/profile/pekka.bsky.soc ... emksbma22i
Soome president väitis, et temal sellist infot ei ole ja et WSJ on ka varem kahtlase infoga esinenud (ta kasutas küll sõna "mielenkiintoisia")
Presidentti Stubb tyrmää The Wall Street Journalin uutisen Venäjän osuudesta kaapelirikkoon https://www.hs.fi/alueet/art-2000010906524.html
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Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Tuletan meelde seda uudist: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/brush- ... r-08b5b182
ehk Euroopa riigijuhtidel on kombeks Vene vägitegusid vähendada, sest siis ei pea nad vastukäike tegema. Et saaks mugavalt edasi oleskleda.
ehk Euroopa riigijuhtidel on kombeks Vene vägitegusid vähendada, sest siis ei pea nad vastukäike tegema. Et saaks mugavalt edasi oleskleda.
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Rootsi politsei ronis siis täna Hiina laevale, mis Taani poolt kinni peeti.
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1869717185746321846Swedish police just boarded the Chinese vessel Yi Peng 3
It’s crew is suspected of having destroyed 2 undersea telecom cables linking Finland-Germany and Sweden-Lithuania a couple of weeks ago
It was intercepted by the Danish Navy while trying to leave the Baltic Sea
https://x.com/Polisen_Sverige/status/18 ... 4003628217”Police observers on Chinese ship:
Swedish police will participate on Thursday as observers aboard the Chinese-flagged ship Yi Peng 3…”
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Poolas mõisteti vangi 21. aastane vene hokimängija, kes valmistus rongi relvade ja humanitaarabiga kraavi laskma
https://x.com/meduza_en/status/1869459871147475334A Polish court has convicted a 21-year-old Russian hockey player of espionage and sentenced him to two years and 11 months in prison. He allegedly agreed to sabotage a train carrying weapons and humanitarian aid to Ukraine.
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Kaablite jms. lõhkumine venelaste arvataval osalusel palun edaspidi sinna teemasse: viewtopic.php?p=873397#p873397 .
Miks Venemaa Ukrainas sõdib?
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Briti luure MI5 juhi arvamus
https://www.voanews.com/a/mi5-spy-chief ... 15346.html"The first 20 years of my career here were crammed full of terrorist threats," McCallum said. "We now face those alongside state-backed assassination and sabotage plots, against the backdrop of a major European land war."
MI5, he said, "has one hell of a job on its hands."
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Re: VF toimetab? Infokillud ja uudised, mis mujale ei sobi.
Vene "magavatest" agentidest läänes
https://theweek.com/defence/how-russia- ... over-spiesMarjan Miklavcic, the former head of Slovenia's military intelligence, told The New York Times that sleeper agents were often planted with "no clear mission": a "hidden reserve force" that could be activated in a crisis. That makes them Russia's "most prized assets", said The Guardian.
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, tuleb vastu lasta.
EA, EU, EH
Kes on foorumil
Kasutajad foorumit lugemas: Registreeritud kasutajaid pole ja 1 külaline